Curse

Saraphim · Nov 01, 2007, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Yeh I did, tbh I was done with this thread but Gaile posted on it again today stating that there was "heated discussion aimed at" the OP. Which while true, goes both ways. Torqual was also using flammatory content in return (and to be fair yes I'd get pissed off with the usual QQ moar! responses if I'd spent a fair bit of time typing out my initial gripe/whine/rant/discussion topic).

And so it floated to the top again.

Unfortunately, depsite the many other threads on ingame issues that people would like to see 'noticed' by the devs this one seems to strike a chord with Gaile. Maybe there's a secret minipet prize in GW2 for Legendary Cartographers.

Edit: response to TheRaven.

/must type faster.

Bryant Again · Nov 01, 2007, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

see this is what i don't understand, on one hand people who support textmod says its not easy using textmod et cetera. (read posts before this)

on the other hand people who come here and say, wow! its so easy, and thanks to textmod i now have 100%??

so is it easy or not easy?

It's always been easy. Now, it just takes a little less time - and time does not equate to difficulty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

Um, I don't think this should make a difference to any of the arguments presented, but does everyone that's contributing to this thread realize that the OP has retracted his statements and left the thread?

The fact that Gaile has the impressing that this is game breaking is what's keeping this thread alive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraphim

The OP was annoyed that people boasted to him that they'd done it in a day.

I just realized: He said that the "gloaters" got the title "in a day", but from what? 95%? 85%? 65%? I think if it's any lower than 85% and I'll have to call shenanigans (the OP has already lost his credibility with calling the posts he disagrees with "excrement.")

Alex Dimitri · Nov 01, 2007, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

see this is what i don't understand, on one hand people who support textmod says its not easy using textmod et cetera. (read posts before this)

on the other hand people who come here and say, wow! its so easy, and thanks to textmod i now have 100%??

so is it easy or not easy?

Look i said i played the game normaly and mapped along the way never did it separately, and no it wasn`t hard.But when i got to 97% things started to be harder so i managed to get all 3 maps to 99.x% and then turned into a problem i couldn`t solve no matter what i did! But let`s face it once u get to that % you are "done" by all means.Then i took Texmod if i didn`t do that i would be still on that % this day (part`s that were messing on my map was let`s just say ridiculous, i would never think that is fog there!).That tool is made only to help people scrape last bits of maps no to be used to uncover map from like 60% that`s just lame! And for the first post the kidds who annoyed poster with 1 day finnish were liars !!!

Mordakai · Nov 01, 2007, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Is using TexMod cheating? I can't answer specific questions about "Is this use cheating?" and "Is this use ok?" I can link you to some statements I've made on the subject, with the approval of Mike O'Brien, co-founder of ArenaNet.

Here's the wiki post that may help. (It is linked to materials that are months old, so don't mind the commentary above -- those issues are fully resolved.)

But I do understand that the larger issue is the question of whether the use of the mod in this instance is acceptable. A title once took months and a lot of ingenuity to acquire. Now, it can be obtained with virtually zero ingenuity (other than finding the mod and installing it ) and in a matter of days. Does that concern us? Would we ban someone who "exploited" the game in that manner? I honestly don't think so, but I truly do not know.

I have sent an email to Mike O'Brien asking him specifically about this. Again, I don't think that anyone needs to be overly concerned about this, but for your peace of mind, I will inquire and get back to you with the answer to this particular question.

Please understand that this thread did not "stir the pot" or cause us to place any undue attention on this question, or on modding as a whole. There is some rather heated commentary directed at the OP, where in fact his question is both practical and philosophical, and is nothing about which we were previously unaware. Also, it didn't cause a focus, or the arming of some sort of "ban gun" or "nerf bat."

Just for reference, here is Gaile's quote.

It'd be useful for a mod or Torqual to put this in the Front. (EDIT)

Also, it concerns me that Gaile seems not to understand what this mod does, as someone still has to hug every wall to get 100%. And the idea that before the mod, having to compare your map with another map to find the places you may have missed is considered "ingenuity"... well, I'll let others sort that out.

To me, the mod is an example of ingenuity. Before that, it was based more on tedious rework.

Bubby7 · Nov 01, 2007, 04:12 PM // 16:12

So then here the question....How is this cheating or an UnFAIR adavtage to anyone? Since it was put out there to help EVERYONE...I could understand it if only it was done in the event to help only them selfs or other in there Guild...Like I sayed I dont know how to use the mods an I am not going for the titled,But it is great that other out there have thought of a way too help other who are trying to get that title...

Bale_Shadowscar · Nov 01, 2007, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

Othis mod was so good that one of them hadn't even been into JQ and neither of them even knew about the Eredon Terrace glitch. So no actual skill involved.

So researching a glitch and following instructions from a forum to get a title is a lot more skillful than researching a mod and following its instructions.

Mordakai · Nov 01, 2007, 04:19 PM // 16:19

I still don't understand how this mod "cheapens" the Title, anymore than guildwiki "cheapens" Protector titles by giving decent walkthroughs.

Maybe Anet should edit out all guides in their wiki as well...

Bryant Again · Nov 01, 2007, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I still don't understand how this mod "cheapens" the Title, anymore than guildwiki "cheapens" Protector titles by giving decent walkthroughs.

Maybe Anet should edit out all guides in their wiki as well...

Not to mention links to the Guildwiki are in-game...

bobrath · Nov 01, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25

At the core, this mod changes the color and border of the fog. That's all. It makes the distinction between "explorable" fog and "unexplorable" fog more obvious.

If Anet's intent for the GMC title was to ask folks to spend endless hours trying to figure out which piece of fog should be able to made to disappear... well then yes the mod in question goes around that and provides an advantage. However, Anet gave us leeway in setting the 100% to lower then the actual 100%.

I am concerned that Gaile may believe this title can now be gained with "zero ingenuity"... So is the GMC title supposed to be a reflection of my ability to compare screen shots of maps, is it supposed to be a reflection of my OCD ability to walk at 45% angles to every wall in the game, is it supposed to demonstrate my ability to use the wikis and forums to find every glitchable location so that I can eek out an extra 0.1%?

Or is it supposed to reflect my accomplishment in "seeing" all the amazing locations and sites within the GW world?

Saraphim · Nov 01, 2007, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Not to mention links to the Guildwiki are in-game...

You've just successfully shot down the only difference that could possibly be argued between all other forms of game help (wiki, map comparison etc) and this mod. You can access user generated content developed for the community by other players through the actual game, and by design from Arena.net.

I salute you sir.

/winthread

Bubby7 · Nov 01, 2007, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobrath

glitchable location

Is using glicthe's in-game cheating aslo? From what I understand they are

An like I sayed before I dont think it is an UNFAIR adavtage to anyone...It was put out too help EVERYONE who choose to use the textmod

Aera Lure · Nov 01, 2007, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

So, the whole thing was prompted by my reaction to two guys mocking my stupid 'achievement' of LGMC because they could get it in a few days. I mean WTF it's like Vanquishing with an AK47, I didn't like to hear it, it annoyed me. I've since seen that almost everybody likes and uses the patch and faced up to the fact that TBH, it's not harming me. If it gets people Cartographing then great. Ultimately you get the satisfaction out of a title directly proportional to the work you put into it.

I think the point you missed though is that it hadnt anything to do with TextMod anyway. You state yourself that they were 'good' players, though its hearsay, point taken. Thing is, same players could just have easily worked Cartographer that fast using simply Photoshop with a Difference layer and a 100% map. It had been done that way for ages before TextMod came along, and I still prefer Photoshop > mod myself.

Not much there to get riled up about. The title itself is largely about doing it as fast and efficiently as possible, since its pixel scraping. To willingly avoid helpful resources isnt really admirable in this case as all it does is extend the time, though no, there is nothing wrong with doing it trial and error fashion.

IslandHermet · Nov 01, 2007, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Is using TexMod cheating? I can't answer specific questions about "Is this use cheating?" and "Is this use ok?" I can link you to some statements I've made on the subject, with the approval of Mike O'Brien, co-founder of ArenaNet.

Here's the wiki post that may help. (It is linked to materials that are months old, so don't mind the commentary above -- those issues are fully resolved.)

But I do understand that the larger issue is the question of whether the use of the mod in this instance is acceptable. A title once took months and a lot of ingenuity to acquire. Now, it can be obtained with virtually zero ingenuity (other than finding the mod and installing it

) and in a matter of days. Does that concern us? Would we ban someone who "exploited" the game in that manner? I honestly don't think so, but I truly do not know.

I have sent an email to Mike O'Brien asking him specifically about this. Again, I don't think that anyone needs to be overly concerned about this, but for your peace of mind, I will inquire and get back to you with the answer to this particular question.

Please understand that this thread did not "stir the pot" or cause us to place any undue attention on this question, or on modding as a whole. There is some rather heated commentary directed at the OP, where in fact his question is both practical and philosophical, and is nothing about which we were previously unaware. Also, it didn't cause a focus, or the arming of some sort of "ban gun" or "nerf bat."

Wonder how you can call useing Adobe photoshop moding?? it is Adobe they made the program for the reason of editing pictures, Anet CAN NOT ban for this because it is not made for GW only it is a PHOTOSHOP EDITOR. Anet cannot look at you computer to see if you are useing adobe that is against the law to search someones computer without the owners permission. They can monitor you GW application to see if any hacks or exploits were placed in to it, since Adobe is not a hack or exploit Anet can do nothing and if they did there would be many lawsuits from people and Adobe.

Nothing about EGC elonian cart took months in fact it took me 6 days to get the title NO MODDING NO PHOTOSHOP.

gone · Nov 01, 2007, 04:54 PM // 16:54

If they do something about it, let them do it here as well. No help/map comparisions, take down the carto threads, etc..etc..etc..

just because SOMEONE does it in a few hours, doesn't mean EVERYONE can.
-get over it. it's a title, in a game. no one twisted your arm to go for it.

I sense a bit of....'why didn't I think of that' and it doesn't really even apply.

Saraphim · Nov 01, 2007, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

I am not lying about this

Sorry, in case I didn't make it clear, personally I didn't think you were lying but more that I wondered if the people who told you about it were. Apologies if I did imply that.

Eh.. I'm done. This has gone on longer than the thread about not being able to complete cartography without using 'exploits'..

Bubby7 · Nov 01, 2007, 05:06 PM // 17:06

THANK YOU GUYS who made this mod,I dont have the title but it looks great good JOB!!!

the_jos · Nov 01, 2007, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Thread shifted from arguments against/for Texmod to 'should we implement it in the game'.

While I don't oppose Texmod as tool (as stated before) I would not like the mod implemented in the game.
The reason for that is I'm comparing Texmod to comparing (or having someone compare) with a graphical program, both are external methods.
Both are ways to 'cheat' the title, but both have value to find the last spots.
Some first time explorer running Texmod all the time is probably slower than someone who has worked on exploration titles before.
The only thing it helps with is making sure you don't have to revisit an area.
That's not a feature that should be in the game.

If you want your exploration title easy, go ahead.
But don't ask for features in the game to make it easier than it is already.

Chthon · Nov 01, 2007, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

I am not lying about this, I am reporting the information that was given to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraphim

Sorry, in case I didn't make it clear, personally I didn't think you were lying but more that I wondered if the people who told you about it were. Apologies if I did imply that.

Yes, those guys had to be exaggerating. No matter how good they may be, their tale simply defies the limitations of run speed and the amount of uncoverable fog displayed in the Canthan mod. (There simply is not 100% worth of fog outside of JQ and Terrace displayed by the current version of the mod; You need to find spots beyond what the mod shows to get 100% without doing either of those two areas.)

I do fault you a little bit for not checking that their story was even possible before repeating it. Especially since it seems to have incited the Gaile Grey Edition of the Spanish Inquisition against a popular and beloved tool...

Anywho, I applaud your change of attitude on this topic. More importantly than that, I applaud your broader change of attitude towards titles and "accomplishments" in GW. Perhaps for the first time, you're playing the game for yourself and not for impressing or outdoing other people. That's a very good thing, and I congratulate you for it.

Karyuu · Nov 01, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Then you don't understand why people use texmod, the_jos. It's not about making this title a piece of cake to attain, it's to make up for a bad design. I disagree that dealing with the default fog as it is, is the optimal way to go about in a cartography system. I would very much like to see it changed.

People use texmod because they feel the game itself isn't doing a good enough job when it comes to helping them work this system.

Fitz Rinley · Nov 01, 2007, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I posted in an earlier reply that I can understand someone with 99% using this mod to find their last 1%. I sympathise and I can relate to that.

What I dislike is someone who hasnt even tried exploring, or put any effort in using the normal mechanism to use the mod right from the start. People should atleast attempt to explore to an extent before they resort to using a mod like this to make it "easier".

I can also relate to someone who has 5 characters and doesnt want to do it all again the harder way. But if its your first charactera and you use the mod from the word go, then that is "lazey" because you havent even tried.

That is what I personally have issues with.

Aslong as a person tries the existing system to explore to a fare %, then I dont mind. But I think the mod should only be used by those who are frustrated and in need of serious aid.

Not just for the first-timer to jump right in and uncover all edges really easily.

I have 99.7% of Cantha. I can see exactly where .3% is that I am not allowed to get to. Would the mod or other exploits possibly help me get the .3% (like Eredon's Terrace), probably. Am I using it, no. GW should correct their game.